http://www.iowalive.net/bishop%20refuses.htm
ELCA PRESIDING BISHOP REFUSES TO RESPOND!!
7-13-09
Greetings, Mr. Mark Hanson. Presiding ELCA Bishop, and all: C. L. 999
Your and other Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) Synod Bishop’s refusal to acknowledge, respond to, or answer Iowalive’s question necessitates this post, asking more pertinent questions—such as:
1. What homosexual sex act consummates a homosexual marriage, equivalent to the Biblical, heterosexual sex act that consummates a heterosexual marriage into one flesh?
a. As you and other ELCA Bishops well know, if a marriage has not been consummated, there is no marriage. If there is no marriage, and the ELCA KNOWINGLY tries to recognize it as a marriage—and misrepresent it as being a marriage, such ELCA behavior is FRAUDULENT. Had you and the other ELCA Bishops thought of that, as you ignored answering our question posted farther below?
2. Why has the ELCA repeatedly refused to require a two thirds majority vote, to pass the Social Statement, as repeatedly requested by congregations—and as congregations must have to leave the ELCA?
3. Does it cause you any concern there are now 223 congregations in the Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ (LCMC) and more joining weekly—who left the ELCA in protest of the ELCA’s Social Statement?
4. Does it concern you the WordAlone Network and WordAlone http://www.wordalone.org/ continues its attempt to reform the ELCA, from within the ELCA?
5. Is it fitting to hold the ELCA Social Statement vote, in an Iranian style election, held in Minnesota—where activists can count the votes, until they get the number they want??
6. Does the following table concern you or ELCA Synod Bishops? Do you, or they, have better numbers to share with us?
ELCA HEADQUARTERS, SYNODS, SOCIAL STATEMENT & VOTE MANAGEMENT ALL HAVE PATHETIC INTEGRITY--AND ARE A HUGE MISMATCH WITH ELCA CONGREGATIONS.
DESCRIPTION
INTEGRITY INDEX LEVEL, ON SCALE OF 0 TO 1,000 TOPS--WHERE SIGNIFICANT INTEGRITY STARTS AT 300
AVERAGE OPERATING EFFICIENCY--YEAR-TO-DATE 7-13-09
LCMC HEADQUARTERS
660
80%
LCMC U. S. CONGREGATIONS
650
55%
WORD ALONE HEADQUARTERS
640
51%
ELCA U.S. CONGREGATIONS
520
42%
ELCA U. S. SYNODS
130
36%
ELCA HEADQUARTERS IN CHICAGO
20
38%
ELCA SOCIAL STATEMENT
0
NA
ELCA MANAGEMENT OF VOTE ON SOCIAL STATEMENT
0
NA
Anyone claiming to have better numbers is asked to provide them for evaluation and comparison.
7. Do the following two Iowalive charts concern you? Why doesn’t the ELCA have worship attendance numbers posted for years 2007 and 2008? What is it trying to hide? If you, or anyone, claim to have better numbers, please provide them for evaluation and comparison.
EVIDENCE OF MAJOR SPLIT IN THE ELCA
PROJECTED LCMC GROWTH
PROJECTED ELCA WORSHIP ATTENDANCE DECLINE
As you should expect, this post will also be posted on http://iowalive.net/ .
Sincerely,
Iowalive
John 3:21
"It is the nature of all hypocrites and false prophets to create a conscience where there is none, and to cause conscience to disappear where it does exist." Martin Luther
Monday, July 27, 2009
Monday, July 20, 2009
Church Makes Itself Irrelevant.
A Commentary by J. D. Longstreet
*********************************************
Episcopal Church officials voted recently to allow bishops the latitude to bless same-sex unions and it is a vote that may further divide the worldwide Anglican community. Read the full article entitled: "Episcopalians authorize bishops to bless same-sex unions" HERE.
In my opinion, it is past time for the Anglican community to toss ECUSA out and be done with it.
I am a non-practicing ELCA Lutheran. I became non-practicing when my church adopted left-wing politics in place of the scriptures. It was at that point that it became, in my opinion, apostate, and I left the church because that is what Christians are supposed to do when they find themselves in such surroundings.
The Episcopal Church, USA seems bent on becoming a "cult", of some sort, rather than a church or denomination, within the mainline churches of the world. The Anglican Communion, in my opinion, ought to toss them and get on with their Christian work without the distractions left-wing organizations seem always to bring with them into any organization.
There is an article at the Charlotte Observer site you will find interesting. It is titled: "A Church Divided" and you will find it HERE.
As we watch the mainline churches in America fall like dominoes to the evil forces assailing them, one must wonder whatever gave them the idea they could weigh anchor and sail away from safe harbor within the sola scriptura. As one of the (seemingly) very few OLD Lutherans left still kicking, I confess to believing, still, in sola scriptura, meaning: "only from the scriptures," or "the scripture alone," or, finally, "the scriptures (The Bible) as the sole source of authority." What I mean, simply, is that I base my faith on scripture alone, not on politics, not on any secular creed, not on passing fancies, whims, fashions, and, or, fads, but scripture - alone. Back in the day, when protestantism did the same thing, denominations did not split over things like homosexual bishops, blessing homosexual marriages, etc. It was enough that the scriptures condemned homosexuality. The argument, if ever there was one, was over before it began.
With the all out attack of left-wing politics on the church, and the Left's "everybody goes to heaven" theology (making the church, itself, irrelevant), denominations not deeply anchored in sola scriptorua folded like cheap suits.
Sola scriptorium, on the other hand, is a philosophy upon which the original protestant churches were built. The Great Reformer, Martin Luther, gets the credit for inventing it. It dictates, in layman's terms, that the interpretation of the word of God ultimately rests within a person and his or her personal relationship with God. That is, no one else can tell you how to believe in God. See, now, I LIKE that. In fact, I have lived my life that way. I do not now, nor have I ever, believed that it is forbidden for one to interpret the scriptures for oneself. Although, some churches in Christendom do believe it is forbidden for the believer to read and interpret the scriptures for himself or herself.
As I said above, I must admit to being an adherent to Sola Scriptura, as well. That is - Bible Sufficiency - or the scriptures alone. In other words, I hold a belief in the scriptures as the sole source of authority... not the preacher, not the pastor, not the priest, not the Bishop, not the Pope - the scriptures alone. As a result, I have very few gray areas in matters of faith, to deal with.
In my last few years as an active church member, I was in a constant state of turmoil. I watched my church become something I knew to be wrong. When I spoke up and warned fellow members the path the church had taken was not biblical, was not true to the faith, and most importantly, was not true to the scriptures, I was looked upon with disdain. As I looked about me I saw, to my horror, that fellow members did not seem to be troubled by the path the church was taking. Mainly, they wanted to be left alone and not disturbed by unpleasant things such as apostasy.
I stopped taking communion - and finally announced to my bible study class that I was leaving the church because I could not remain a part of an organization that I believed was not true to the scriptures. I was admonished to remain in the church and work from the inside to force the church to return to its scriptural mission. After a few weeks of actually considering that - I decided that would not work because the hierarchy of the church was far too powerful and they had set the course for the church and nothing I could ever do would make the least bit of difference. And so, I left the church.
My only regret is that I could not do a thing to save my beloved church from self-destruction. My greatest disappointment is with my (former) fellow members of that denomination who could not be bothered to act quickly and decisively to save a great old Christian denomination which had done much good in this world, in God's name, but had now gone over to the opposition.
Today, as I watch so many of the mainline churches going over to the enemy, I have to ask myself if this is as bad as it appears? The scriptures tell us clearly that only a remnant of God's people will survive "the great shakeout." It seems to me that our great old denominations, like our nation, the USA, have become fat and lazy and are not competent to lead anymore. The churches, tired of setting the standards for society have, instead, adopted society's standards as their own. It is much less work, you see. In doing so they have forsaken their only true mission on this earth and are of no further use in the fulfillment of The Great Commission. Shouldn't we, then, ask ourselves if these churches, these Christian denominations, have become a hindrance to the work of the true church on this earth? I warn you, an honest answer here WILL hurt!
J. D. Longstreet
******************
A Commentary by J. D. Longstreet
*********************************************
Episcopal Church officials voted recently to allow bishops the latitude to bless same-sex unions and it is a vote that may further divide the worldwide Anglican community. Read the full article entitled: "Episcopalians authorize bishops to bless same-sex unions" HERE.
In my opinion, it is past time for the Anglican community to toss ECUSA out and be done with it.
I am a non-practicing ELCA Lutheran. I became non-practicing when my church adopted left-wing politics in place of the scriptures. It was at that point that it became, in my opinion, apostate, and I left the church because that is what Christians are supposed to do when they find themselves in such surroundings.
The Episcopal Church, USA seems bent on becoming a "cult", of some sort, rather than a church or denomination, within the mainline churches of the world. The Anglican Communion, in my opinion, ought to toss them and get on with their Christian work without the distractions left-wing organizations seem always to bring with them into any organization.
There is an article at the Charlotte Observer site you will find interesting. It is titled: "A Church Divided" and you will find it HERE.
As we watch the mainline churches in America fall like dominoes to the evil forces assailing them, one must wonder whatever gave them the idea they could weigh anchor and sail away from safe harbor within the sola scriptura. As one of the (seemingly) very few OLD Lutherans left still kicking, I confess to believing, still, in sola scriptura, meaning: "only from the scriptures," or "the scripture alone," or, finally, "the scriptures (The Bible) as the sole source of authority." What I mean, simply, is that I base my faith on scripture alone, not on politics, not on any secular creed, not on passing fancies, whims, fashions, and, or, fads, but scripture - alone. Back in the day, when protestantism did the same thing, denominations did not split over things like homosexual bishops, blessing homosexual marriages, etc. It was enough that the scriptures condemned homosexuality. The argument, if ever there was one, was over before it began.
With the all out attack of left-wing politics on the church, and the Left's "everybody goes to heaven" theology (making the church, itself, irrelevant), denominations not deeply anchored in sola scriptorua folded like cheap suits.
Sola scriptorium, on the other hand, is a philosophy upon which the original protestant churches were built. The Great Reformer, Martin Luther, gets the credit for inventing it. It dictates, in layman's terms, that the interpretation of the word of God ultimately rests within a person and his or her personal relationship with God. That is, no one else can tell you how to believe in God. See, now, I LIKE that. In fact, I have lived my life that way. I do not now, nor have I ever, believed that it is forbidden for one to interpret the scriptures for oneself. Although, some churches in Christendom do believe it is forbidden for the believer to read and interpret the scriptures for himself or herself.
As I said above, I must admit to being an adherent to Sola Scriptura, as well. That is - Bible Sufficiency - or the scriptures alone. In other words, I hold a belief in the scriptures as the sole source of authority... not the preacher, not the pastor, not the priest, not the Bishop, not the Pope - the scriptures alone. As a result, I have very few gray areas in matters of faith, to deal with.
In my last few years as an active church member, I was in a constant state of turmoil. I watched my church become something I knew to be wrong. When I spoke up and warned fellow members the path the church had taken was not biblical, was not true to the faith, and most importantly, was not true to the scriptures, I was looked upon with disdain. As I looked about me I saw, to my horror, that fellow members did not seem to be troubled by the path the church was taking. Mainly, they wanted to be left alone and not disturbed by unpleasant things such as apostasy.
I stopped taking communion - and finally announced to my bible study class that I was leaving the church because I could not remain a part of an organization that I believed was not true to the scriptures. I was admonished to remain in the church and work from the inside to force the church to return to its scriptural mission. After a few weeks of actually considering that - I decided that would not work because the hierarchy of the church was far too powerful and they had set the course for the church and nothing I could ever do would make the least bit of difference. And so, I left the church.
My only regret is that I could not do a thing to save my beloved church from self-destruction. My greatest disappointment is with my (former) fellow members of that denomination who could not be bothered to act quickly and decisively to save a great old Christian denomination which had done much good in this world, in God's name, but had now gone over to the opposition.
Today, as I watch so many of the mainline churches going over to the enemy, I have to ask myself if this is as bad as it appears? The scriptures tell us clearly that only a remnant of God's people will survive "the great shakeout." It seems to me that our great old denominations, like our nation, the USA, have become fat and lazy and are not competent to lead anymore. The churches, tired of setting the standards for society have, instead, adopted society's standards as their own. It is much less work, you see. In doing so they have forsaken their only true mission on this earth and are of no further use in the fulfillment of The Great Commission. Shouldn't we, then, ask ourselves if these churches, these Christian denominations, have become a hindrance to the work of the true church on this earth? I warn you, an honest answer here WILL hurt!
J. D. Longstreet
******************
Sunday, July 19, 2009
Gay-friendly-church-shift-precursor-of-evangelicalism
GAY-FRIENDLY CHURCH SHIFT PRECURSOR OF EVANGELICALISM
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jul 17, 2009 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Emergence Christianity, Emergent Church, Features, Homosexuality/"Christian", Youth Ministry
Apprising Ministries is attempting to do what we can to warn of impending disaster concerning mainstream evangelicalism, which continues its drift further into apostasy. One of the issues we’ve been using as an illustration is the deviant lifestyle of those practicing homosexuality, as in having sexual relations with another of the same sex.
The reason this sin of sexual immorality will become an issue even within the heart of conservative evangelicalism is its rejecting the proper Biblical spirituality of Sola Scriptura in favor of centered-on-the-self Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism, e.g. Disciplines To Deception In Southern Baptist Convention.
Now whether one wishes to admit it—or even look at it—within the younger sectors of mainstream evangelical community there is a growing affirmation that homosexuality is indeed a viable lifestyle for the regenerated Christian. For example, one currently gaining stature who typifies this position is Jay Bakker.
We’ve already shown in Jay Bakker To Speak For ELCA Gathering that Bakker is featured speaker at the upcoming 2009 ELCA Youth Gathering—Jesus Justice Jazz, July 22-26 in New Orleans. This would still be, for now, on the fringe of evangelicalism but consider the following from Emerging Church aka Emergent Church—morphing into Emergence Christianity (EC)—theologian Tony Jones:
there are many complex reasons why opposition to same sex marriage has become the latest bugaboo for Evangelicals, not least of which is their interpretation of the seven passages in the Bible that mention homosexuality (that’s .02% of the Bible).
And we do, indeed, need to have a serious and thoroughgoing debate about the meaning of these passages for our day. In fact, some of us are having such a debate. (Online source)
Yes, they are; and it will pick up even more steam after an upcoming EC conference called Christianity 21, which Jones is putting on with his pastor Doug Pagitt. It’s no coincidence that C21 features “queer inclusive” ELCA “pastor” Nadia Bolz-Weber and gay affirming “Presbymergent” Nanette Sawyer, a “pastor” in the PC(USA).
So below we give you another peek of the in-fighting ahead for mainstream evangelical denominations who are foolish enough to embrace these EC white-washed tombs, and sadly, their sympathizers already occupy leadership positions within many:
An Everett Methodist church chose this month to go against its own denomination and publicly accept gays and lesbians into its congregation. Members of St. Paul United Methodist Church voted this month to become “open and affirming,” a term used by other Methodist churches that have taken the same step.
“I think (gays and lesbians) are entitled to equal rights,” said Patricia Rudd, chairwoman of the church committee that’s handling the change. “That’s what Jesus is all about.” Edmonds Christian Church, a Disciples of Christ congregation, also voted within the past month to welcome gays and lesbians. Both churches are taking action on an issue that has split denominations throughout the nation… (Online source)
AM has also brought out in Schism ‘Inevitable’ After US Bishops Approve Gay Ordination that this dastardly divisive homosexual lobby is now completely ripping apart the Episcopal Church. And make no mistake here; they are the ones dividing the visible church because Bible-believing Christians have no choice but to distance ourselves from this homosexual heresy.
No, don’t be fooled; for example, Dr. John MacArthur has already told us who’s really at the slimy bottom of this whole Emerging same-sex mess in the church. Hint — Indeed, has God said (Genesis 3:1, NASB):
The bottom line, I think, in the [Emerging Church] movement is that it is a denial of the clarity of Scripture. It is a denial that we can know what the Bible really says… It is at the foundation an unwillingness to accept the clear teaching of Scripture… These people, like the liberals, deny the clear teaching of Scripture…
One of the big issues is homosexuality in the Emerging Church. They don’t want to take a position on homosexuality. The Bible is not vague or obscure or oblique about homosexuality. It couldn’t be more clear. A homosexual will not inherit the Kingdom of God…that’s pretty clear. Homosexuality in Romans chapter 1 is a perversion that is manifestly when it happens in a culture, begins to dominate a culture, an evidence of divine wrath and divine judgment. So the Bible is clear. They don’t want that clarity. (Online source)
A word to the wise here; this issue of the unrepentant practice of sexual immorality with a member of the same sex i.e. homosexuality is absolutely not going to go away, so you’d best get ready to decide where you’re going to stand.
See also:
JAY BAKKER AND CHRIS ROSEBROUGH
HOMOPRESSIVE AS JAY BAKKER
REV. MEGAN ROHRER ON GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT
WALKING WITH INTEGRITY: THE OFFICIAL BLOG FOR INTEGRITY-USA
OXYMORONIC ‘HOMOSEXUAL CHRISTIANS’ FOCUS OF BARNA REPORT
THE NEW CHRISTIANS WITH CHRISTIANITY WORTH BELIEVING—NO SOLA SCRIPTURA: YES, WOMEN PASTORS AND QUEER CHRISTIANS
POPULAR EMERGING CHURCH WEBSITE THE OOZE SLITHERS OUT OF THE GLBTQ-AFFIRMING CLOSET
ShareThis
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By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jul 17, 2009 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Emergence Christianity, Emergent Church, Features, Homosexuality/"Christian", Youth Ministry
Apprising Ministries is attempting to do what we can to warn of impending disaster concerning mainstream evangelicalism, which continues its drift further into apostasy. One of the issues we’ve been using as an illustration is the deviant lifestyle of those practicing homosexuality, as in having sexual relations with another of the same sex.
The reason this sin of sexual immorality will become an issue even within the heart of conservative evangelicalism is its rejecting the proper Biblical spirituality of Sola Scriptura in favor of centered-on-the-self Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism, e.g. Disciplines To Deception In Southern Baptist Convention.
Now whether one wishes to admit it—or even look at it—within the younger sectors of mainstream evangelical community there is a growing affirmation that homosexuality is indeed a viable lifestyle for the regenerated Christian. For example, one currently gaining stature who typifies this position is Jay Bakker.
We’ve already shown in Jay Bakker To Speak For ELCA Gathering that Bakker is featured speaker at the upcoming 2009 ELCA Youth Gathering—Jesus Justice Jazz, July 22-26 in New Orleans. This would still be, for now, on the fringe of evangelicalism but consider the following from Emerging Church aka Emergent Church—morphing into Emergence Christianity (EC)—theologian Tony Jones:
there are many complex reasons why opposition to same sex marriage has become the latest bugaboo for Evangelicals, not least of which is their interpretation of the seven passages in the Bible that mention homosexuality (that’s .02% of the Bible).
And we do, indeed, need to have a serious and thoroughgoing debate about the meaning of these passages for our day. In fact, some of us are having such a debate. (Online source)
Yes, they are; and it will pick up even more steam after an upcoming EC conference called Christianity 21, which Jones is putting on with his pastor Doug Pagitt. It’s no coincidence that C21 features “queer inclusive” ELCA “pastor” Nadia Bolz-Weber and gay affirming “Presbymergent” Nanette Sawyer, a “pastor” in the PC(USA).
So below we give you another peek of the in-fighting ahead for mainstream evangelical denominations who are foolish enough to embrace these EC white-washed tombs, and sadly, their sympathizers already occupy leadership positions within many:
An Everett Methodist church chose this month to go against its own denomination and publicly accept gays and lesbians into its congregation. Members of St. Paul United Methodist Church voted this month to become “open and affirming,” a term used by other Methodist churches that have taken the same step.
“I think (gays and lesbians) are entitled to equal rights,” said Patricia Rudd, chairwoman of the church committee that’s handling the change. “That’s what Jesus is all about.” Edmonds Christian Church, a Disciples of Christ congregation, also voted within the past month to welcome gays and lesbians. Both churches are taking action on an issue that has split denominations throughout the nation… (Online source)
AM has also brought out in Schism ‘Inevitable’ After US Bishops Approve Gay Ordination that this dastardly divisive homosexual lobby is now completely ripping apart the Episcopal Church. And make no mistake here; they are the ones dividing the visible church because Bible-believing Christians have no choice but to distance ourselves from this homosexual heresy.
No, don’t be fooled; for example, Dr. John MacArthur has already told us who’s really at the slimy bottom of this whole Emerging same-sex mess in the church. Hint — Indeed, has God said (Genesis 3:1, NASB):
The bottom line, I think, in the [Emerging Church] movement is that it is a denial of the clarity of Scripture. It is a denial that we can know what the Bible really says… It is at the foundation an unwillingness to accept the clear teaching of Scripture… These people, like the liberals, deny the clear teaching of Scripture…
One of the big issues is homosexuality in the Emerging Church. They don’t want to take a position on homosexuality. The Bible is not vague or obscure or oblique about homosexuality. It couldn’t be more clear. A homosexual will not inherit the Kingdom of God…that’s pretty clear. Homosexuality in Romans chapter 1 is a perversion that is manifestly when it happens in a culture, begins to dominate a culture, an evidence of divine wrath and divine judgment. So the Bible is clear. They don’t want that clarity. (Online source)
A word to the wise here; this issue of the unrepentant practice of sexual immorality with a member of the same sex i.e. homosexuality is absolutely not going to go away, so you’d best get ready to decide where you’re going to stand.
See also:
JAY BAKKER AND CHRIS ROSEBROUGH
HOMOPRESSIVE AS JAY BAKKER
REV. MEGAN ROHRER ON GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT
WALKING WITH INTEGRITY: THE OFFICIAL BLOG FOR INTEGRITY-USA
OXYMORONIC ‘HOMOSEXUAL CHRISTIANS’ FOCUS OF BARNA REPORT
THE NEW CHRISTIANS WITH CHRISTIANITY WORTH BELIEVING—NO SOLA SCRIPTURA: YES, WOMEN PASTORS AND QUEER CHRISTIANS
POPULAR EMERGING CHURCH WEBSITE THE OOZE SLITHERS OUT OF THE GLBTQ-AFFIRMING CLOSET
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Saturday, July 18, 2009
It's time to start ministering to homosexuals
Pastor: It's time to start ministering to homosexuals
PATRICK SULLIVAN/TIMES-NEWS
Buy photo
The Rev. Bill Campbell is writing a book about ministering to homosexuals..
By Amy B. McCraw
Times-News Correspondent
Published: Saturday, July 18, 2009 at 4:30 a.m.
Last Modified: Friday, July 17, 2009 at 8:18 p.m.
Homosexuality and the church. Put those words together most any place most any time and sparks are guaranteed to fly.
So, it's no wonder the Rev. Dr. Bill Campbell, 52, hesitates a moment before discussing his new book, "Homosexuality and the Church: Overcoming Controversy With Compassionate Ministry."
"It's a delicate subject," says Campbell, the pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Hendersonville.
Delicate or not, Campbell says his book confronts the question of the church's role in the lives of those struggling with homosexuality head-on.
"It's time for us to get real and understand what people are facing," he says. "The whole focus of the book is to help churches understand the issue and become places of ministry."
Campbell's call for the church to "get real" involves what he calls a blend of truth with grace.
That blend means churches should develop ministries that help people struggling with their sexuality live in a way that honors Christ, Campbell says. Condemning homosexuals, he says, or turning them away from church is not helpful or what Jesus would have wanted.
SPECIAL MINISTRY
"The church should provide help for people who want to change," he says. "It's time to stop arguing. It's time to start ministering the way Jesus would do. He made a special effort to show love to those who were marginalized."
Campbell believes many homosexuals can learn to live with their desires without acting on them -- much in the same way that an alcoholic can learn to resist alcohol or a sexual addict can learn to control his impulses.
"They will still have periods of struggle for the rest of their lives," he says. "Those desires may change. Many say, 'I'm in recovery.' Many would say, 'Oh, I've had a total turnaround.' They have totally lost their homosexual attractions."
Churches should create ministries for homosexuals who want to change their behavior, Campbell says.
"My passion is for the church to develop a ministry itself rather than say, 'Go get help over there,' " he says. "The issue of sexuality is messy. It's not as black and white as we would like to think it is. Homosexuals who go for help, many of them do find change. It would be untrue to say all can no longer change."
Campbell says he outlines in his book how churches should help homosexuals.
Such a ministry would include counselors in the church to be a supportive arm for homosexuals who seek help. Support groups for homosexuals and their families would be formed and leaders in the church would also be trained to understand the issue.
The trained church leaders would, in turn, reach out to the congregation to help them understand the compassionate approach to homosexuals. As members of the congregation become involved, Campbell says, they can reach out to the larger community.
Campbell hopes First Presbyterian, which has about 550 members, will become a model that helps people struggling with homosexuality. The church's leadership, he says, has been engaged with his approach and is on board.
That said, he knows that every church is different and must find its own way to create a compassionate environment.
"There is no one standard model," says.
His book will highlight different models based on demographics and church size and the basic concepts that any church can focus on.
Campbell says he is nearly finished writing the book, which is scheduled to come out early next year. He began researching the topic nearly 15 years ago and has been under contract with a Christian book publisher for nine months.
But Campbell's interest in the topic doesn't end with his book.
He also has invited special guests to speak at First Presbyterian on the issue. One of those guests is the Rev. Tim Wilkins of Cross Ministry in Wake Forest.
Wilkins will speak at First Presbyterian July 26 during the worship service and again at 6:30 p.m. about his journey from homosexuality to becoming a pastor who is now married and has children. His Cross Ministry is a nondenominational Christian organization based in Wake Forest that proclaims freedom from homosexuality through Jesus Christ.
Wilkins wants people to know his story and see that a homosexual person can change.
"I found my way out of not only the behavior of homosexuality but out of the actual mindset of being homosexual," Wilkins says during a telephone interview this week. "I want them to know I'm genuine. I'm real."
A CHANGE IN FOCUS
Like Campbell, Wilkins thinks Christians should show homosexuals love and compassion while at the same time not condone their behavior.
"I take a very compassionate, redemptive approach. No one has ever been argued out of homosexuality," he says. "I love homosexuals now more than when I was one."
Wilkins says he struggled with homosexuality as a child. He later lived a life of celibacy before marrying a woman when he was 33 years old. He eventually became attracted to women after learning to follow God's word, Wilkins says.
"I did not choose to be attracted to the same sex," he says. "We don't get to choose what we are tempted by."
Wilkins says he chose to change after Jesus became his focus and he developed a meaningful relationship with God.
Churches that minister to people struggling with their sexuality can be a tremendous help in their own journey toward having a better relationship with God, Wilkins says.
First Presbyterian also will host a conference on Aug. 29, illustrating how churches can best help homosexuals. The event is sponsored by the Henderson County Ministerial Association and Truth Ministries. The conference will focus on Campbell's and others' idea of blending truth and grace to help people who struggle with their sexuality.
The conference will be from 8:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. The event costs $15in advance, which includes lunch, or $20 at the door.
Members of his congregation have been supportive of his sermons concerning homosexuality and of the guest speakers on the topic, Campbell says.
"One person said, 'I have a lesbian daughter and I have been waiting for 20 years to hear a sermon that addressed this topic in a biblical manner,' " he says. "Just condemning is not biblical. That is not what Christ did. He spoke the truth, He said, 'Don't do this anymore.' But there was love."
Campbell says he recognizes that his book, guest speakers and recent sermons might not be popular with all people in his church or in the community. But he believes the issue of homosexuality must be addressed if churches want to move beyond political divisions and misunderstanding.
"I don't want to avoid it," he says, this time without hesitation. "I believe God wants to turn this into something positive. This won't go away if we ignore it."
PATRICK SULLIVAN/TIMES-NEWS
Buy photo
The Rev. Bill Campbell is writing a book about ministering to homosexuals..
By Amy B. McCraw
Times-News Correspondent
Published: Saturday, July 18, 2009 at 4:30 a.m.
Last Modified: Friday, July 17, 2009 at 8:18 p.m.
Homosexuality and the church. Put those words together most any place most any time and sparks are guaranteed to fly.
So, it's no wonder the Rev. Dr. Bill Campbell, 52, hesitates a moment before discussing his new book, "Homosexuality and the Church: Overcoming Controversy With Compassionate Ministry."
"It's a delicate subject," says Campbell, the pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Hendersonville.
Delicate or not, Campbell says his book confronts the question of the church's role in the lives of those struggling with homosexuality head-on.
"It's time for us to get real and understand what people are facing," he says. "The whole focus of the book is to help churches understand the issue and become places of ministry."
Campbell's call for the church to "get real" involves what he calls a blend of truth with grace.
That blend means churches should develop ministries that help people struggling with their sexuality live in a way that honors Christ, Campbell says. Condemning homosexuals, he says, or turning them away from church is not helpful or what Jesus would have wanted.
SPECIAL MINISTRY
"The church should provide help for people who want to change," he says. "It's time to stop arguing. It's time to start ministering the way Jesus would do. He made a special effort to show love to those who were marginalized."
Campbell believes many homosexuals can learn to live with their desires without acting on them -- much in the same way that an alcoholic can learn to resist alcohol or a sexual addict can learn to control his impulses.
"They will still have periods of struggle for the rest of their lives," he says. "Those desires may change. Many say, 'I'm in recovery.' Many would say, 'Oh, I've had a total turnaround.' They have totally lost their homosexual attractions."
Churches should create ministries for homosexuals who want to change their behavior, Campbell says.
"My passion is for the church to develop a ministry itself rather than say, 'Go get help over there,' " he says. "The issue of sexuality is messy. It's not as black and white as we would like to think it is. Homosexuals who go for help, many of them do find change. It would be untrue to say all can no longer change."
Campbell says he outlines in his book how churches should help homosexuals.
Such a ministry would include counselors in the church to be a supportive arm for homosexuals who seek help. Support groups for homosexuals and their families would be formed and leaders in the church would also be trained to understand the issue.
The trained church leaders would, in turn, reach out to the congregation to help them understand the compassionate approach to homosexuals. As members of the congregation become involved, Campbell says, they can reach out to the larger community.
Campbell hopes First Presbyterian, which has about 550 members, will become a model that helps people struggling with homosexuality. The church's leadership, he says, has been engaged with his approach and is on board.
That said, he knows that every church is different and must find its own way to create a compassionate environment.
"There is no one standard model," says.
His book will highlight different models based on demographics and church size and the basic concepts that any church can focus on.
Campbell says he is nearly finished writing the book, which is scheduled to come out early next year. He began researching the topic nearly 15 years ago and has been under contract with a Christian book publisher for nine months.
But Campbell's interest in the topic doesn't end with his book.
He also has invited special guests to speak at First Presbyterian on the issue. One of those guests is the Rev. Tim Wilkins of Cross Ministry in Wake Forest.
Wilkins will speak at First Presbyterian July 26 during the worship service and again at 6:30 p.m. about his journey from homosexuality to becoming a pastor who is now married and has children. His Cross Ministry is a nondenominational Christian organization based in Wake Forest that proclaims freedom from homosexuality through Jesus Christ.
Wilkins wants people to know his story and see that a homosexual person can change.
"I found my way out of not only the behavior of homosexuality but out of the actual mindset of being homosexual," Wilkins says during a telephone interview this week. "I want them to know I'm genuine. I'm real."
A CHANGE IN FOCUS
Like Campbell, Wilkins thinks Christians should show homosexuals love and compassion while at the same time not condone their behavior.
"I take a very compassionate, redemptive approach. No one has ever been argued out of homosexuality," he says. "I love homosexuals now more than when I was one."
Wilkins says he struggled with homosexuality as a child. He later lived a life of celibacy before marrying a woman when he was 33 years old. He eventually became attracted to women after learning to follow God's word, Wilkins says.
"I did not choose to be attracted to the same sex," he says. "We don't get to choose what we are tempted by."
Wilkins says he chose to change after Jesus became his focus and he developed a meaningful relationship with God.
Churches that minister to people struggling with their sexuality can be a tremendous help in their own journey toward having a better relationship with God, Wilkins says.
First Presbyterian also will host a conference on Aug. 29, illustrating how churches can best help homosexuals. The event is sponsored by the Henderson County Ministerial Association and Truth Ministries. The conference will focus on Campbell's and others' idea of blending truth and grace to help people who struggle with their sexuality.
The conference will be from 8:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. The event costs $15in advance, which includes lunch, or $20 at the door.
Members of his congregation have been supportive of his sermons concerning homosexuality and of the guest speakers on the topic, Campbell says.
"One person said, 'I have a lesbian daughter and I have been waiting for 20 years to hear a sermon that addressed this topic in a biblical manner,' " he says. "Just condemning is not biblical. That is not what Christ did. He spoke the truth, He said, 'Don't do this anymore.' But there was love."
Campbell says he recognizes that his book, guest speakers and recent sermons might not be popular with all people in his church or in the community. But he believes the issue of homosexuality must be addressed if churches want to move beyond political divisions and misunderstanding.
"I don't want to avoid it," he says, this time without hesitation. "I believe God wants to turn this into something positive. This won't go away if we ignore it."
Wednesday, July 15, 2009
ReligionNewsBlog
Religion news articles about religious cults, sects, world religions, and related issues
The following is a sampling of major denominations in the United States and their stands, practices or policies regarding homosexuality:
Assemblies of God
� Worshipers: “. . . opposes homosexuality and the gay lifestyle recognizing such as sin. But we encourage all members to reach out in love to homosexuals extending to them the grace that leads us all to Christ’s forgiveness.”
� Ministers: Not allowed.
� Same-sex unions: Not allowed.
Baptist General Conference
� Worshipers: believes “there is hope for the person with a homosexual orientation and that Jesus Christ offers a healing alternative.”
� Ministers: Not qualified to serve.
� Same-sex unions: Not allowed.
Catholic
� Worshipers: Condemns the sin, not the sinner.
� Priests: Cannot marry and must be celibate, regardless of sexual orientation.
� Same-sex unions: Forbidden.
Jewish (Conservative)
� Worshipers: In last policy review in 1992, the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism’s lawmaking panel urged congregations, youth groups, summer camps and schools to welcome gays.
� Rabbis: Banned, but discussion has been reopened.
� Same-sex unions: Banned, but discussion has been reopened.
Jewish (Orthodox)
� Worshipers: Prohibits homosexual relations.
� Rabbis: Banned.
� Same-sex unions: Not sanctioned.
Jewish (Reform)
� Worshipers: Welcome to participate fully.
� Rabbis: Ordination of gay rabbis approved in 1990.
� Same-sex unions: Officially sanctioned in 2000.
Lutheran (ELCA)
� Worshipers: Welcome to participate fully.
� Pastors: Requires all nonmarried ministers, regardless of sexual orientation, to be celibate.
� Same-sex unions: Has not taken a position on the blessing of same-sex committed relationships.
Lutheran (Missouri Synod)
� Worshipers: Considered a sin, but homosexuals are welcome to participate in worship and other church activities.
� Ministers: Excludes homosexuals.
� Same-sex unions: Not recognized.
Lutheran (Wisconsin Evangelical Synod)
� Worshipers: Considered a sin, but denomination “reaches out to all people.”
� Ministers: Excludes gays and lesbians.
� Same-sex unions: Not recognized.
Methodist
� Worshipers: Does not condone homosexuality, but is committed “to be in ministry for and with all persons.”
� Ministers: Excludes homosexuals from ordained ministry.
� Same-sex unions: Denies recognition of homosexual unions.
Muslim
� Worshipers: Condemns homosexuality; punishable by death in some countries.
� Imams: Forbidden.
� Same-sex unions: Forbidden.
Presbyterian
� Worshipers: Welcome in its congregations.
� Ministers: Openly gay ministers cannot be ordained.
� Same-sex unions: Cannot be performed if determined to be the same as a marriage ceremony.
United Church of Christ
� Worshipers: Congregations can vote to adopt “Open and Affirming” covenant welcoming those of all sexual orientations.
� Ministers: Non-discriminatory ordination policy adopted in 1983.
� Same-sex unions: Some ministers perform ceremonies.
Compiled by staff librarian Linda Scheimann
What You Can Do From Here
Religion news articles about religious cults, sects, world religions, and related issues
The following is a sampling of major denominations in the United States and their stands, practices or policies regarding homosexuality:
Assemblies of God
� Worshipers: “. . . opposes homosexuality and the gay lifestyle recognizing such as sin. But we encourage all members to reach out in love to homosexuals extending to them the grace that leads us all to Christ’s forgiveness.”
� Ministers: Not allowed.
� Same-sex unions: Not allowed.
Baptist General Conference
� Worshipers: believes “there is hope for the person with a homosexual orientation and that Jesus Christ offers a healing alternative.”
� Ministers: Not qualified to serve.
� Same-sex unions: Not allowed.
Catholic
� Worshipers: Condemns the sin, not the sinner.
� Priests: Cannot marry and must be celibate, regardless of sexual orientation.
� Same-sex unions: Forbidden.
Jewish (Conservative)
� Worshipers: In last policy review in 1992, the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism’s lawmaking panel urged congregations, youth groups, summer camps and schools to welcome gays.
� Rabbis: Banned, but discussion has been reopened.
� Same-sex unions: Banned, but discussion has been reopened.
Jewish (Orthodox)
� Worshipers: Prohibits homosexual relations.
� Rabbis: Banned.
� Same-sex unions: Not sanctioned.
Jewish (Reform)
� Worshipers: Welcome to participate fully.
� Rabbis: Ordination of gay rabbis approved in 1990.
� Same-sex unions: Officially sanctioned in 2000.
Lutheran (ELCA)
� Worshipers: Welcome to participate fully.
� Pastors: Requires all nonmarried ministers, regardless of sexual orientation, to be celibate.
� Same-sex unions: Has not taken a position on the blessing of same-sex committed relationships.
Lutheran (Missouri Synod)
� Worshipers: Considered a sin, but homosexuals are welcome to participate in worship and other church activities.
� Ministers: Excludes homosexuals.
� Same-sex unions: Not recognized.
Lutheran (Wisconsin Evangelical Synod)
� Worshipers: Considered a sin, but denomination “reaches out to all people.”
� Ministers: Excludes gays and lesbians.
� Same-sex unions: Not recognized.
Methodist
� Worshipers: Does not condone homosexuality, but is committed “to be in ministry for and with all persons.”
� Ministers: Excludes homosexuals from ordained ministry.
� Same-sex unions: Denies recognition of homosexual unions.
Muslim
� Worshipers: Condemns homosexuality; punishable by death in some countries.
� Imams: Forbidden.
� Same-sex unions: Forbidden.
Presbyterian
� Worshipers: Welcome in its congregations.
� Ministers: Openly gay ministers cannot be ordained.
� Same-sex unions: Cannot be performed if determined to be the same as a marriage ceremony.
United Church of Christ
� Worshipers: Congregations can vote to adopt “Open and Affirming” covenant welcoming those of all sexual orientations.
� Ministers: Non-discriminatory ordination policy adopted in 1983.
� Same-sex unions: Some ministers perform ceremonies.
Compiled by staff librarian Linda Scheimann
What You Can Do From Here
August 1, 2003 |
SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2009
The great Com-mission
I have left the Lutheran Church as a congregant to become an Disciple of the most high God. IN ALL churchs
The Great Commission
Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
"Disciples
Discipleship
An Evangelist
Etuein " to make Disciples
Make Disciples " Matheteusate"
Baptizing and teaching
The aim of Mission is the winning of people to the status of being TRUE CHRISTIANS
The First Disciple that followed our Lord were in fact the Prototypes for his CHURCH. NOT religion but we the believers who are the church...... we are the Bride of Christ.
The task of the followers of Jesus was to make other into what they
had, had become and were; Disciples
They, the disciples are the salt of the earth ( humble) and the light of the world (Filled with the Holy Spirit) God IS there Father, and they ARE children of God's reign, and as such they are FREE, Free of all worldly trappings because they may be IN the world but are not OF the world. And they are "adelphoi" brothers among each other as well as servants of each other. They each follow separately the Master but never alone because they are of the fellowship of the Body of Christ. The Disciples were fellow workers for the Kingdom not just messengers.
How do be a Disciple in 10 easy steps
Being a Disciple of Jesus does not mean that one has arrived so to speak. Once you stand for Christ you have just Informed the Enemy that your ready to have that target put on your back. Matthew warns us to be ever vigilant to the last moment, to constantly be under self examination, Mission work never should take place in self-confidence but in knowledge of our own weakness. and to be eager to engage in mission.
In Mathew Jesus promises his Desciples that " I am with you always even unto the end of this age"
This means that Jesus is with you, in the presence of Holy Spirit. I have had Lutheran Minister correct me when ever I would say that we were in that place saving souls daily. The pastors would say that only the Holy Spirit can save souls..... DUH.. but what do they think that Holy Spirit is in the next room waiting for his cue? Or is it not a fact that as a Disciple of the most high God that he has Indwelt Holy Spirit inside of you to do his works.
I can say as a fact that many times I have touched someone and Holy Spirit has gone out of me into them. Can you name any time in scripture that holy spirit saved a soul without going through a person?
So what is Discipleship? Is it going to Kentucky to work on a habitat home or taking kids to a youth rally? Is that stuff really mission? Sure it is very Important but is it Mission?
If Jesus is indeed Lord of all, this reality just has to be proclaimed. Nobody who knows of this can remain silent about it. He or she can do only one thing, help others also to acknowledge Jesus' lordship, and this is what mission is all about,,, Proclaiming his Lordship.
A Disciples task is of self giving service to the world. The resurrected Jesus is present among all of his missionaries.
It is unthinkable to divorce the Christian life of love and justice from being an disciple. Discipleship involves a commitment to Gods reign, to Justice and love, and to obedience to the entire will of God. Mission is not narrowed down to an activity of making individuals new creatures, of providing them of blessed assurance so that come what may they will be eternally saved. Mission involves from the beginning and as a matte of course making the new believer sensitive to the needs of others, opening there eyes and hearts to recognize injustice, suffering, oppression, and the plight of others who have fallen by the wayside.
It is not possible to make disciples without telling them to practice God's call of justice for the poor.
BUT they are also proclaimers of the Kingdom of Heaven.
The Great Commission
Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.
"Disciples
Discipleship
An Evangelist
Etuein " to make Disciples
Make Disciples " Matheteusate"
Baptizing and teaching
The aim of Mission is the winning of people to the status of being TRUE CHRISTIANS
The First Disciple that followed our Lord were in fact the Prototypes for his CHURCH. NOT religion but we the believers who are the church...... we are the Bride of Christ.
The task of the followers of Jesus was to make other into what they
had, had become and were; Disciples
They, the disciples are the salt of the earth ( humble) and the light of the world (Filled with the Holy Spirit) God IS there Father, and they ARE children of God's reign, and as such they are FREE, Free of all worldly trappings because they may be IN the world but are not OF the world. And they are "adelphoi" brothers among each other as well as servants of each other. They each follow separately the Master but never alone because they are of the fellowship of the Body of Christ. The Disciples were fellow workers for the Kingdom not just messengers.
How do be a Disciple in 10 easy steps
Being a Disciple of Jesus does not mean that one has arrived so to speak. Once you stand for Christ you have just Informed the Enemy that your ready to have that target put on your back. Matthew warns us to be ever vigilant to the last moment, to constantly be under self examination, Mission work never should take place in self-confidence but in knowledge of our own weakness. and to be eager to engage in mission.
In Mathew Jesus promises his Desciples that " I am with you always even unto the end of this age"
This means that Jesus is with you, in the presence of Holy Spirit. I have had Lutheran Minister correct me when ever I would say that we were in that place saving souls daily. The pastors would say that only the Holy Spirit can save souls..... DUH.. but what do they think that Holy Spirit is in the next room waiting for his cue? Or is it not a fact that as a Disciple of the most high God that he has Indwelt Holy Spirit inside of you to do his works.
I can say as a fact that many times I have touched someone and Holy Spirit has gone out of me into them. Can you name any time in scripture that holy spirit saved a soul without going through a person?
So what is Discipleship? Is it going to Kentucky to work on a habitat home or taking kids to a youth rally? Is that stuff really mission? Sure it is very Important but is it Mission?
If Jesus is indeed Lord of all, this reality just has to be proclaimed. Nobody who knows of this can remain silent about it. He or she can do only one thing, help others also to acknowledge Jesus' lordship, and this is what mission is all about,,, Proclaiming his Lordship.
A Disciples task is of self giving service to the world. The resurrected Jesus is present among all of his missionaries.
It is unthinkable to divorce the Christian life of love and justice from being an disciple. Discipleship involves a commitment to Gods reign, to Justice and love, and to obedience to the entire will of God. Mission is not narrowed down to an activity of making individuals new creatures, of providing them of blessed assurance so that come what may they will be eternally saved. Mission involves from the beginning and as a matte of course making the new believer sensitive to the needs of others, opening there eyes and hearts to recognize injustice, suffering, oppression, and the plight of others who have fallen by the wayside.
It is not possible to make disciples without telling them to practice God's call of justice for the poor.
BUT they are also proclaimers of the Kingdom of Heaven.
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RICK AT OFFICE
Still Confused
| CHURCH AND STATE ARE ON A COLLISION COURSE OVER GAY RIGHTS | 30 Jun |
Recently, on MSNBC/Reuters news service there was an article titled “Pastor Defends Exorcism of Gay Man” dated June 26, 2009. In this story we read about an African-American ministry that conducted an exorcism on a young man and posted it on You Tube. The young man happened to be gay. Needless-to-say, such a thing has generated a firestorm of controversy. I see one white woman giving her opinion as she states “this young man’s soul was murdered”. Without question, this has brought the gay vs straight debate once again to the “edge of the knife”. 
In particular, this news story has brought focus on the issue of how much say or authority the state should have in the affairs of the church.
Next, we are witnessing the ongoing saga of Perez Hilton who many remember from the most recent Miss USA contest. We saw how Mr Hilton took it upon himself to deny Miss California success in her career because she expressed her Christian views. Now, more recently, we have witnessed a new episode involving Mr Hilton and the pop band called “Black Eyed Peas”. Seems that Mr Hilton is exhibiting particular aggressiveness toward young, professional “women”.
The issue of gay rights vs the conservative, evangelical church community is fast becoming the watershed or “societal tipping point” in the debate concerning all things church and state. There is not a greater or more significant issue in this debate than that of gay rights. The reason being is that there is no middle ground between these two groups on this issue. There is no middle ground between the homosexual and the conservative, evangelical Christian. Therein lies the gravely serious concern about this issue. Gone are the days when our society could watch movies such as “Conair” and see a gay individual standing up in front of an airplane and dancing to the song “Sweet Home Alabama” in front of a plane load of convicts and, then after having watched the movie, just simply “forget about it all”.
Anytime you talk about “rights” you are talking in legal terminology. And, anytime you are talking in legal terminology you are talking courts, judges and legal interpretation. The problem for our society now is that when it comes to the issue of gay rights and the position of the conservative, evangelical Christian, there is absolutely no middle ground. What I am saying is that you could never ask a serious Christian to accept the idea of “well we will agree that you have the freedom to preach and teach anything you choose and the freedom to classify anything you choose as a sin according to your interpretation of the Bible – except homosexuality.” The serious Christian cannot accept such a position because according to conservative evangelical theology, to deliberately compromise on your personal, moral conviction would, in turn, place that particular Christian’s soul in jeopardy.
On the other hand, the militant homosexuals will never accept the idea of “well, what if we write a law that classifies any negative talk against homosexuality as a hate crime, however; evangelical churches and Christians will be exempt from this law because it would infringe upon their freedom of religious beliefs.”
What we are faced with, as a society, on this issue is quite simply that it is fast becoming “all or none” for both sides. There is no middle ground. In the mind of the Christian, there can be no acceptance of a law that would require that Christian to compromise his or her moral conviction. But, on the other hand, in the mind of the homosexual, there can be no acceptance of a law that would class anti-gay talk and commentary as a hate crime for only some people, but at the same time, allow an entire class of people to be exempt from prosecution for the same. If a hate-crime law of this type is passed (and we are close), and then a Christian Pastor is arrested for preaching against homosexuality, everyone might as well buy tickets to Washington D.C. because such a case is clearly headed to the U.S. Supreme Court.
Enforcement of such a “hate crime” law would be no simple matter. If this scenario develops in our society, we will see a “Pandora’s Box” opened up and our society will be changed forever. It will never be put back again. The reason this is so is because it’s not just a simple matter of interpreting homosexuals as a “class” of people. It goes way beyond that. Let’s make some logical observations.
Our country has a recent history of the civil rights movement. There is the history of blacks being discriminated against by whites. In the course of seeing the history of racist manifestations on the part of whites toward blacks, it was never said or thought that “being black” was morally wrong. Instead, whites were simply saying, in no uncertain terms, “you are black, therefore, you are of a different class”. And, the whites chose to discriminate against this class. The difference between this and the issue of gay rights is galactic. For you see, for two millennium it has been the position of the Christian church that homosexuality is a sin. Never did the Christian community simply say that homosexuals were of a “lower class”. This difference is enormous and this difference means everything in this debate. For you see, to define homosexuals as a “class” and then, to say that society cannot speak ill of this “class” means that the Christian would be asked to give up or change his or her moral conviction on the issue.
Let’s look at it another way. Being a black person is not a choice of behavior. Only black people can be black. However, being a homosexual is a choice of behavior as we clearly see that there are both black and white homosexuals. This reality leads to the next point.
The court that would bring to trial such a case of discrimination and supposed hate crime involving a Christian would have the burden of proving or disproving that there is a legitimate and sustainable process of reasoning as to why evangelical Christians believe and teach that homosexuality is wrong. In other words, out of all the things that a Christian would consider wrong or evil, the court would be challenged with the burden of determining whether the Christian did or did not “pick homosexuality out of a hat” and then, in turn, classify it as sinful. I can see where a courtroom trial would very quickly become focused on the “basis” for the belief that homosexuality is “wrong or bad”. It would be inevitable that the court would be faced with simply saying that the Christian can call anything he or she wants to call sin – except homosexuality. The only alternative would be for the court to put the entire “belief system” of the Christian on trial. Either way, such a court would then, in essence, be dictating morality and deciding what the Christian has the right to believe is sin or not. This is extremely treacherous ground for our legal system.
We hear a lot of talk about diversity in our society. But, what I am seeing is that the “developing definition” of “diversity” is that diversity means “anything but Christian”. Or, another way to put it would be that diversity means acquiescence for all serious Christians. We give up our religious rights and freedoms to a pseudo-class of citizens who are willfully choosing to participate in behavior that the Christian considers sinful behavior.
America is slipping off her moral foundations. Speaking of diversity, it seems ironic that the Christian position on homosexuality is discussed in the media but, never the position of other religions such as Islam. What do Muslims believe about homosexuality? Or, does the burden of “diversity” only apply to the Christians?
I can envision an “irony of ironies” where, let’s say, an African-American Pastor living in Selma, Alabama would be invited to preach at an African-American church in Montgomery, Alabama. And, during the course of delivering his message on that particular Sunday morning, this African-American Preacher would speak of homosexuality and describe it as being a sin that damns the soul. Shortly thereafter, upon driving back to Selma, he is pulled over by the highway patrol and arrested for having “violated the civil rights” of the homosexual community. If we are not careful, this is exactly where all of this is headed. It would turn our country into a “legal no man’s land”. Our body of law would become un-interpretable and thus, there would be no law.
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1 COMMENTS:
The local church provides accountability and a multitude of gifts to carry out this great commission.
The authority to baptize, and hold the Lord's Supper is given to the church, not just individual Christians.
Find somewhere preaching the word brother. It is a lonely island man, I know.
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